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  • avyakt7- New Generation 1:11 PM on April 8, 2020 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: 5000 year cycle, , BK Jagdish Chander, , ,   

    Question on “Churnings” of BK Jagdish Chander and BK intellectual knowledge 

    A reader (Kirtan) asked many questions concerning intellectual/ mind matters of “churning BK knowledge” and also cited Jagdish Chander’s book on the “5000 year cycle.”
    He also asked me to reply a question ASAP and to give him my email address in case he had further questions.

    Let me start from the end. Avyakt7-NG does not want to be a “on-demand free resource.” He only shares here within his available time, and will respond to questions and/or comments if required, in his view.  Also, Avyakt7-NG does not give personal advise. All the “churnings” he has done while being a BK, are available in the website: Explore7.wordpress.com between the years 2012 and 2013. All is required is to “search a keyword” on that website if someone would like to read my particular take on a topic at that time.

    As a BK, I was an avid reader of scientific and BK materials, but now that doesn’t interest me.
    I understand that perhaps for Kirtan is very important to confirm BK knowledge in an intellectual way, so he can share it with others or to feel firm within his faith. That is part of the BK experience.

    Upon having read some books of BK Jagdish, I could say that he was in that intellectual line. He read a lot and put his interpretations and findings, in his books. However, his “knowledge” was as good as his bibliography. Very limited at the time. His research was mostly based on classical physics (Any Quantum physics there?) On the other hand, because of the Internet; we have way more information and as we can observe, it changes in little time. Science is a work in progress. A “truth,” yesterday could be a “lie” today. That is a possibility. Nevertheless nowadays, the well known “search for truth” of the scientific community, is financially supported by organizations concerned in demonstrating a particular “truth” according to their interest.  To use science to “prove” spiritual topics or a particular belief system is to interpret and dissect science to fit our beliefs. Science deals mostly with matter for that is “objective.” Spirituality on the other hand, is very subjective for it depends on a beyond or below “normal” (depending on our point of reference) level of consciousness or experience, while science resides mostly in the collective consciousness: The 5 senses. 

    I couldn’t find a free version of Jagdish’s “5000 year World Cycle,” but I found one on “Brahmacharya” which I will use to make a point later in this article.
    If I recall correctly, there is a word used by Jagdish while explaining how from the Golden age, we “descend” into the Iron age: “Entropy.” However, that word is used very different in Science and Business. In the world cycle there is “renewal,” (which is not the correct word to describe the well known phrase -Going “up” and “down” the ladder – which is merely a viewpoint of a dualistic mind.) That “renewal” does not follow the way “entropy” is typically understood. The dualistic mind selects the “Golden age” as “order,” and the “Iron age” as “disorder.” We are “descending,” it is said; when from another perspective it is only a different experience that a particular “soul” may have. We are not “descending” in a predestined cycle. We are only having a complementary experience, if we decide to compare the Golden age with the Iron age.

    Observe the following paragraph from Jagdish’s book “Brahmacharya.” (Book: -Brahmacharya the true path of God realization- Pages 4-5 – Chapter 1- The significance of Brahmacharya in the social set up.)

    “The Gita declares that sex-lust produces anger which in its turn causes confusion of the intellect. From this point of view all the violent turmoil that is there in society or revolutionary disorders of today have their origin in the lack of continence of people. It would, therefore, be good if the Government and those engaged in social service understood the importance of brahmacharya as the basic solution of all the predicaments of society and of the country at large.”

    Jagdish has generalized that sex-lust in people, is the origin of the violent turmoil in society by following the perspective of the Gita (according to him.) The “basic solution” is to follow brahmacharya, he says.
    That generalization has no support other than Jagdish’s and Brahma Kumaris’ beliefs. “Proof”? There are many angry BKs “practicing” continence. 
    In my experience, we ARE already anger (we could discuss all day about the ’cause’ but what matters is the reality of observing that anger) and sexuality only manifests that reality.

    Jagdish has mentioned in one of his books that he is not “trained” in science. He has only given his opinions although heavily conditioned by his beliefs and experiences. However; without a doubt his writings are very important for Brahma Kumaris’ followers, as those support BK knowledge.

    To finish, I will share with you an article I wrote on the same line as Jagdish. I read a science book and I interpreted that based on BK knowledge that I already knew. I discovered many things in that exercise.
    The write up is here.
    If you would like to follow current scientific theories on cyclic models of the Universe, you may want to read the “Steinhardt-Turok” model and the “Baum-Frampton” model. As a BK I was reading some of Turok’s work as I recall. As I said before, now I have no interest at all in scientific findings supporting “spirituality” and religious beliefs or going against it.

    In my experience, cyclical time exists. I don’t know if it is 5000 years or not. It doesn’t matter to me; but I can say that “this writing here, has been written before” and it will appear sometime in the future again or the past … Depending on your point of reference, and that will repeat endlessly.
    I don’t have the need to prove this, to convince others. For I am merely sharing my own experience.

    All the best.

    ********** Will resume writing on April 29th. Enjoy. 🙂 **************

     
    • Kirtan 6:05 PM on April 9, 2020 Permalink | Reply

      Thanks for the reply Ananda. I really appreciate your time on this. And I truly admire you for that. Well I see you did a tremendous researches on complete package which life can offer. And now you are not much interested in such researches, perhaps you no longer feel its more needed, as for science it’s never going to be possible to come closer to the truth as the scientific community is more likely to perform such tasks for humans with some “agendas”. I completely agree with you. Also is see as you achieved no-I state, it doesn’t matter whatever comes up. But let me add one more thing for not be not interested in such things,; assumptions on which science is based upon. It all lies on false premises and that’s the reason I believe Brother Jagdish was not much interested in taking out any meaning from quantum physics rather he targeted all premise/axioms on which science is standing. I don’t think he could have ignored the top selling of his time by Fritjoff Capra. But he thought attack on root and take out whole tree, instead of cutting branches😂. But guys like you and me was not going to stop there only. We are much interested in participating every hunt.
      OK now coming up to Quantum Realm. Its a world of vagueness. Why it happened like that?Is quantum world has vagueness or its our understanding of it. I am sure its our understanding of it and one day we can come across any final theory, for that I believe science has to make some corrections in their definition of Consiouness as it relies mostly on 5 senses as you said.
      Here is the live example of it, “Deepak Chopra in one of his debates with Richard Dawkins, said atoms are sentients as Freeman Dyson said it. Richard Dawkins: no its not, Dsyon never said that.” There’s a nobel prize for those who can prove which of them is correct. Well only condition, is to use double slit for it.
      I believe, though we might have some firm belives which we come up with, scientific knowledge, we should take agnostic approach only while studying anything. Don’t need to make out any sort of meaning of it and just see the picture as a whole without Dissecting and interpreting it for our own spritual understanding.
      Again Thanks for suggesting Steinhardt-Turok” model and the “Baum-Frampton” model. I will definitely go through it. As I see its an attempt to prove cyclic time but we no longer need to prove anything which we have experienced as you say. Apart from this if you get some time I would like you to entertain yourself with some of the videos of Dr. Steven Greer. I think he wants to be rembered as a man way way way ahead of his time!

      And finally for all angry Bks out there practicing continence. Brothers take the advice of this man seriously. This is definitely not what Baba wants you to pass from. And leave the clan immediately!

      Dear Ananda Really Thank you for your article based on my comments. You nailed it Bro! Enjoy your time! 👍

      Like

    • Kirtan 9:13 PM on April 9, 2020 Permalink | Reply

      Free version of Eternal World Drama can be downloaded from this link.
      https://www.brahma-kumaris.com/books

      Like

  • avyakt7- New Generation 8:00 AM on June 26, 2019 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: 5000 year cycle, , , ,   

    The 5000 year cycle of Brahma Kumaris 

    Nothing entices a would-be-follower more, than to know that “he would be saved” and the rest will not. He is an “exclusivity” of Destiny. A “chosen one.”

    The gist of existence of the Brahma Kumaris for those without an experience with Brahma Baba, is without a doubt; the “end of the world.” “We are about to end the cycle of time. Save yourself. Now or never.” Moreover, since this is an identically repeating cycle, then “if you make a mistake this will repeat cycle after cycle…” That is a very strong selling point, indeed.

    “I” don’t want to make a “mistake” and not be able to “fix it.”
    That sort of teaching, teaches to fear living Life. However, there is nothing better than fear to stir people in a particular direction: “Eat vegetables rather than candy, otherwise; you’ll be doomed.”

    Many former followers feel cheated because the “prediction of end of the world” among others, did not happen as believed: “I wasted my life for nothing”. They eagerly expected the world to be destroyed.

    All millennial prophecies have proven “wrong” so far. Nevertheless, still people believe in them for their minds are plugged into the “future” and they want some certainty in an uncertain world.

    As a BK, I had a very particular experience with the cycle of time while meditating. From that moment on, I was able to grasp with certain depth, the significance of it.
    First, it is important to realize that humans pretend to understand Life under their own conditioned consciousness. We have 5 senses. Have you ever asked yourself if what you perceive with those is the actual “truth” or merely some limited perception of what is?

    I have experienced that there is a world beyond the material world which has influence over this world. “Science” is based only in the laws ruling the material world without knowledge of what is influential, but coming from “beyond.”
    Bottom line, our minds cannot be sure to know anything, but only to have a limited perception. The collective consciousness agrees in a perception which is later labeled as “truth”.

    That is the reason why, a seeker needs to trust their own particular experience rather than what everyone else says. There is a “reason” for having an experience. A spiritual seeker is not trusting his experience so he can be “better off” or “get ahead” in Life. He is trusting his experience out of his own inner honesty, because he is interested in knowing himself beyond what he has been taught and conditioned to believe. If that is not the case, you are not truly a seeker, but someone who is only looking to be “right” by keeping the approval of the masses.

    Destruction did not happen. “I” was “right”, they were wrong.
    Of what good is to be “right” when your consciousness hasn’t changed a bit? This is “spirituality.” It is not a “gamble with a prize.” The outcome of spirituality is not geared to make you rich and famous and “secure your future.”

    The “5000 years cycle” of the Brahma Kumaris means very little to me. It is of no consequence whether it is “right” or “wrong. For me, that is worth not even a peanut. You could dress up as Lakshmi and Narayan and believe to be those in the future. Your mind will be happy; but your consciousness will be the same as it always has been.

    Nevertheless, what for me has value is to have experienced predestination in all its extent. That is what I will share today.
    Predestination is the most sublime of all the beliefs. Why?
    “I” cannot make “mistakes.”
    “I” cannot make “sins.” Therefore, “I” cannot feel guilty or ashamed. It is all cause and effect. Nothing personal. Therefore, this in itself proves that there cannot be “salvation or punishment.” After all, there is repetition of the same act, cycle after cycle. BK teachers will emphasize that “now we have the chance to change things as whatever we do, will repeat cycle after cycle…” That is only a convenient interpretation to inflict fear.
    WHAT “YOU” HAVE “DONE”, WILL HAPPEN AGAIN… AND THAT IS PERFECT. (Notice the “ “ in “YOU” and “done” there is a “reason” for that.)

    How do “I” get out of this vicious cycle?
    When “I” don’t take things “personal.” For isn’t it that “I” am experiencing something which “I” am not DOING? Although it appears as “I” am DOING. If we see the “unlimited” repetition, then I could see that I have “no choice” but to DO what I have done before. Thus, Am “I” truly DOING?
    “I” am an OBSERVANT without knowing it. (Light bulb on: Karmateet – Detached Observer.)

    How is it possible not to take things personal?
    That is not something to “work on.” That is not a decision to make. It is a matter of consciousness. That will happen when “I” become AWARE of that which “I” call “I”.

    That is what we may need to take home after going through the “5000 year cycle” subterfuge.
    Why is a subterfuge? It should allow you to look for that “I” and inquiry into its existence. However, most miss that and will be lost in proving or disproving the “5000 year cycle.” That is not the “reason” of that subterfuge. Religions such as Christianity which believe in “free will” will not give you the opportunity to inquire into the existence of that “I”, for the “I” is a given. Therefore; “I am guilty, I am a sinner, I need salvation”, that is the output of such conditioning.

    Through that BK subterfuge we have the opportunity to go one step further in our inner search. However, I can assure you that this is not the end of the search. There is more.

    Brahma Kumaris is truly full of subterfuges. As your AWARENESS increases then, you may see that the “cookie monster” of fearful subterfuges is only a way of perception. None of those philosophical words have substance to change consciousness. Most BK followers are not in the stage yet to see that, but all they are looking for, is for words to feed their minds and give them some tranquility. The mind is happy with the mirage of knowing “some conceptual truth.”

    Were you looking in this article for the answer, if the “5000 year eternally repeating cycle is “correct” or not?” Maybe you should read this article.
    Do you believe that Life uses the Gregorian human calendar to fit nice round numbers (1000, 5000, 10000, etc)?

    There is no doubt that “Destruction” will happen some way, some how at some time. It is a matter of time. Many don’t require the Bible or the Murli to be AWARE of that. However, when you discover the nature of that “I”, and start living it… “you” will not BE there but only as an observer.

     
    • Gayathri 11:48 AM on June 26, 2019 Permalink | Reply

      Dear brother, i notice that i had sent my comments on your other article (which is referred in the present one) 6 years ago! 🙂
      Yes, now my understanding is different. Yes, at any given time in the time cycle, my perception would be based on my state / level of consciousness/ awareness at that moment. So, the drama repeats identically every kalpa.
      My consciousness may keep changing…. 🙂

      Like

      • avyakt7- New Generation 4:00 PM on June 26, 2019 Permalink | Reply

        Yes, dear Gayathri. However, the comments of Max Planck ( German theoretical physicist whose discovery of energy quanta won him the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1918.) still remain. Here a couple of his quotes that fit this conversation: “I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”

        Max Planck said in 1944, “As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent spirit (orig. geist). This spirit is the matrix of all matter.”
        and this one:”A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”

        All the best.

        Like

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